Numbers are a dangerous thing. They help us measure things, but measuring in the spiritual realm isn't always a healthy or holy thing. In one sense, we count people because people count. I get that. But there is a great danger when it comes to churches. Numbers tend to produce pride or jealousy. And both of those things will eat you alive spiritually.
I find it interesting that counting numbers was one of David's downfalls. In II Samuel 24 he tells Joab to number the people. Joab asks an insightful question: "Why does my lord the king delight in this thing?" David wasn't just counting. He was delighting in it. But I don't think it was always that way. When the people sang about David killing his tens of thousands it didn't translate into pride, but something changed over time. David is relying on numbers. David is delighting in numbers. It's a prideful numbering. David was conscience-stricken after he took the census, but it was too late. The punishment for David adding up? God subtracted 70,000.
The point? Be careful how you count. And if it results in pride or jealousy, stop counting. The Lord will not share his glory!
I find it interesting that counting numbers was one of David's downfalls. In II Samuel 24 he tells Joab to number the people. Joab asks an insightful question: "Why does my lord the king delight in this thing?" David wasn't just counting. He was delighting in it. But I don't think it was always that way. When the people sang about David killing his tens of thousands it didn't translate into pride, but something changed over time. David is relying on numbers. David is delighting in numbers. It's a prideful numbering. David was conscience-stricken after he took the census, but it was too late. The punishment for David adding up? God subtracted 70,000.
The point? Be careful how you count. And if it results in pride or jealousy, stop counting. The Lord will not share his glory!
12 Comments:
(Counters Anonymous meeting): "Hi, I'm David and I am a counter". :)
I am a David and I have been there. Counting is a double edge sword and many times I have used the sword in a prideful and selfish way. Thanks for the post.
Wanted to share this with you - using Primal for our Peak Challenge this summer in Colorado.
Here is what one guy has noted about the book:
"At 66yrs old and widely read: I would say it is now in my top 5 books of all time. For those that have not read this insightful, profound Christian primer, I would strongly suggest to nudge, beg, inspire, motivate, harass, plead, cajole, embarrass, intimidate, pander, solicit, etc., etc., etc., those men we hold close to commit to reading the book ... every chapter, every page, every word - no short cuts."
God is and will continue to use Primal in great ways for His glory.
Great post! I have been thinking about this lately. The church has become more and more infatuated with numbers. When I was in church as a kid I don't remember thinking how many people were there or whether our attendance was up or down. However, I have students who seem to be very conscious about this fact. I am wondering when this trend changed and if we as pastors have contributed to this in any way?
Don't get me wrong I definitely think you should keep track of numbers. I just think it is given way too much priority.
Thanks Mark,
This is a great post. I'm an independent church planting pastor in Silicon Valley. It has been tempting to succumb to the numbers game. At least I can feel the pressure of it. When reporting to those who ask how it's going, I am learning to focus on how much & how often ministry & community are happening rather than how large our gathering is. I'm also learning to define ministry in terms of my daily obedience to what Jesus defined as the greatest commandments.
I would also say what you count matters. Are you counting the # of seats filled in your church or the # of baptisms?
Interesting timing; I just wrote and posted this on my blog Monday:
A Question I Hate!
Perhaps after over three decades of ministry I should be used to it; but I'm not. I've always hated, after a meeting or series of meetings, having someone ask, "How many got saved?" (or the equally annoying, "How many decisions?")
So...I look like the Holy Spirit? Only He perceives hearts...only He convicts, draws, changes hearts.
But we do like the body counts, don't we?
I am not challenging or questioning the hearts of those who ask (or those who count, for that matter)...but I do wonder...does ANYONE really believe the "numbers" tell any kind of story?
And...even if they did...who brought the unsaved to the meeting? Who did the genuine convicting? Who keeps the count that counts?
The Word of God, inspired by God, has so many vague tallies (not counting Numbers, of course, which opens another can)...but in the New Testament the word "about" is used often...as in "about 5,000," "about 120," and in Acts, "about twelve."
Yo...even I can count to twelve. Methinks the Spirit of God could have had Luke write 13, 11, or 12...but, instead, He dictates "about."
Could there be a lesson there for us? Is it possible that lesson is to remind us to walk by faith, and not by sight? Could a secondary lesson be that only eternity reveals what really takes place in hearts? And could the prime directive be that individuals are more important than numbers?
I repented long ago of being a body counter. I read my early newsletters in shame..."I preached 13 times and there were 42 salvation decisions, 13 assurance, and 7 dedications" ad nauseum. As if the numbers indicate "successful" meetings, where if there were not "numbers" than the meeting was a failure.
But...can't we just be confident that His Word cast forth in faith will accomplish His will?
Call me simplistic...but that's where I'll park. (and, just a sidenote; my dislike of numbers is impacted by my service in Vietnam...where numbers were inflated, stretched, lied about, reckoned to be true indicators etc)
I appreciate the way you define the dilemma. Certainly, we want to reach out to our community, introduce people to Jesus, involve them in the Church. We want to produce fruit. That involves growing. And that means numbers.
But numbers don't tell the whole story. And so the minute we focus on the numbers, apart from other signs of spiritual fruit, we have problems.
I remember some years ago when our church was actually shrinking. Nothing dramatic. We were a small community then, and we knew every face that disappeared and the reason why.
But God was working in the lives of our small number, preparing us for growth. And when the growth came, it came fast. We needed numbers to determine the number of classroom teachers, the number of small groups, the number of chairs in the sanctuary.
I'd like to say we always focus on the Holy Spirit, who produces growth. God has a way of redirecting us when we get distracted.
What a great post. I have seen this a lot in campus ministry, myself included. It is so tempting to number drop how many people you have shared with, how many people you have led to Christ, how many people you are leading in Bible study, how many people you brought to Church with you on Sunday... If only we truly feared the Lord and did not spend the time trying to impress, perform for, or build ourselves up.
What we measure too shifts in time and what we talk about.
I was at a conference and two people were saying "How many you got now?" ... one went "we have 5!" and the other said "We got 11!" and at first I didn't know what they were talking about and then it turned out they were talking about how many multi-sites they each had.
So it isn't just people attending worship gatherings we count and proclaim these days... it is how many multi-sites we now have, in the publishing world it's about book sales, or about size of staff etc....
I do think numbers are important. I want to know in our church how many people are in mid-week groups, how many people serving etc. in addition to the worship gatherings. Because we do want to look at holistic health and there should be examination to see how healthy we can be, but like a human body health isn't just weight. On the other hand, I have heard low numbers used as an excuse for being really spiritual or low numbers mean real community. Which isn't necessarily true either. You can have a small church that is not healthy, as you can have a large church that isn't healthy.
Youth Specialties never puts the size of the church or numbers in the bios of their speakers intentionally. (At least they didn't use to, don't know now with the new shifts that happened there). But I always thought that was a statement they made - so speakers weren't promoted by the size church they had but what ideas and insight they offered.
Thank for the post! I always love reading you blog!
In a different way I've been interested in numbers recently - looking for their significance. For Example having a Mark 6:31 morning (meeting with God in a quiet place, at 6:31AM)
So let's go a step further: what's the significance of 16.9 Fluid Ounces - the serving size of Spirit fuel?
I though a more appropriate dose: 34.8 Fl Oz - Psalm 34:8 "Oh taste and see..."
This is always such a wrestle in ministry. I can be the guy who is prideful when looking at numbers and at the very same time be jealous about someone else's numbers. Wrestle with it too often.
Great post! While I see the need for "numbers" we must realize that people are still people...they should never be viewed as just a number, but as a person. We do tend to view "numbers" as just notches on our belts...and that is sad.
Another thing is I don't think we can always use numbers as a sign for "success" of the church either...while the width of our reach is important depth needs to just as and perhaps more important.
I like what Erin said: "We needed numbers to determine the number of classroom teachers, the number of small groups, the number of chairs in the sanctuary". Anything outside of that, seems to be pride and competition - the bad stuff. I also like what a wise pastor once said, 'It's not important to God how wide we're growing, but how deep we're growing'.
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